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Midland Red
Cherwell
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1 of 27  Wed 27th Jul 2022 9:47am  
Moderator, : Joined Jan 2010  Total posts:5086

How come the word “batsman” is now outlawed but not “lioness” Oh my
Non-Coventry - Current issues - Non-Coventry
Helen F
Warrington
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2 of 27  Wed 27th Jul 2022 10:37am  
Moderator, : Joined Mar 2013  Total posts:3264

Because a certain group of people - women and men - have too much time on their hands and fret about stuff nobody really cares about.
Non-Coventry - Current issues - Non-Coventry
Dreamtime
Perth Western Australia
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3 of 27  Wed 27th Jul 2022 12:08pm  
: Joined Jan 2010  Total posts:2362

Helen. A classic, that comment Double thumbs up
Non-Coventry - Current issues - Non-Coventry
Mick Strong
Coventry
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4 of 27  Wed 27th Jul 2022 1:41pm  
: Joined Oct 2020  Total posts:605

On 27th Jul 2022 9:47am, Midland Red said: How come the word “batsman” is now outlawed but not “lioness” Oh my
I read that we are now being targeted for not having any non-white lionesses!! Perhaps by the same people whom Helen mentioned?
Mick Strong

Non-Coventry - Current issues - Non-Coventry
Mick Strong
Coventry
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5 of 27  Wed 27th Jul 2022 1:54pm  
: Joined Oct 2020  Total posts:605

On 27th Jul 2022 10:37am, Helen F said: Because a certain group of people - women and men - have too much time on their hands and fret about stuff nobody really cares about.
Could the woman who had the vintage arcade game removed from Weston-super-Mare pier for being racist be one of those?
Mick Strong

Non-Coventry - Current issues - Non-Coventry
Helen F
Warrington
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6 of 27  Wed 27th Jul 2022 3:32pm  
Moderator, : Joined Mar 2013  Total posts:3264

It's hard to say, Mick. How offensive something is can't really be assessed by someone who isn't the target. So I don't have a problem being referred to as a female version of a male doing the same job, eg chairwoman, but I would be offended if someone automatically assumed I was there to take notes and make tea. I would also like the person who has to take notes and make the tea to be treated as respectfully as the chair person. Too often words automatically create inequality in the mind of the listener. Sometimes it's deserved, sometimes it's not and we don't always know why differences exist. For instance, girls are often less good at science - is that a fundamental lack of ability? Is it a lack of drive? Or is it a side effect of a society with lower expectations for girls and lower levels of encouragement/pushing? I went to a single sex grammar school and then a secondary that had dropped grammar school status and gone co-ed. The same type of girl was significantly less successful at the high school. I went from near the bottom of the class to near the top. I hadn't changed. Cowboys and Indians celebrates genocide and the invasion of a country by immigrants. I don't believe in looking back in endless apology, but should we still celebrate it? However some of these minor concerns have eclipsed bigger problems and soak up important money and effort on things that are a long way from the priorities. Think how much extra money people could receive in support for illness, heating, etc if it wasn't being spent on newly worded leaflets, diversity officers and rainbow flags.
Non-Coventry - Current issues - Non-Coventry
Mick Strong
Coventry
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7 of 27  Wed 27th Jul 2022 7:08pm  
: Joined Oct 2020  Total posts:605

Hi Helen, no disagreement with anything that you say. Regarding "Cowboys and Indians", this has been a "game" played by young boys and girls for years. Some 67 years ago, as a 5 year old, I had a cowboy outfit (including a six shooter and holster) for Christmas. There was never any mention of genocide or invasion. There must have been thousands of films made over the years, is Emily Crossing going to demand that they are all withdrawn? The arcade game that she claimed was racist was a vintage machine played upon by thousands of little boys and girls over the years without a single complaint. Until!!!! ps, I'm working on a reply regarding your science and girls comment
Mick Strong

Non-Coventry - Current issues - Non-Coventry
Helen F
Warrington
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8 of 27  Wed 27th Jul 2022 8:17pm  
Moderator, : Joined Mar 2013  Total posts:3264

It's an area I can't make my mind up about. Essentially the Indians were deemed to be the baddies and while the game isn't terrible, it's not my ancestors and descendants who were robbed/killed and then mocked. I can say that I don't feel ill will towards the Romans for our slavery or even the Germans for the wars but then my family weren't especially affected by the latter and have no record of the former. Perhaps if things were different I would. What if we'd lost the war? What if we'd never had an empire? What if we were still a vassal to Rome? Part of me thinks it's worse to erase things like cowboys and Indians because it's like erasing the people altogether but a simple substitute would be to replace the Indians with aliens or robots.
Non-Coventry - Current issues - Non-Coventry
Mick Strong
Coventry
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9 of 27  Thu 28th Jul 2022 8:23am  
: Joined Oct 2020  Total posts:605

Hi, Helen. The things you describe are all historic and should be remembered. Hopefully we as a world have become more civilized and made progress to prevent it continuing. But, as we all know, it's still going on in one form or another. I personally have never considered the "Cowboys & Indians" to be racist in any way. It was always a game to be played or a film to watch at the cinema or on the telly. It was part of my childhood to dress up and go pretend shooting and getting shot with an arrow with a rubber sucker on the end. It was also a game that you quickly grew out of, forgot as your dress up clothes were passed down, and moved on to other things as you got older.
Mick Strong

Non-Coventry - Current issues - Non-Coventry
belushi
coventry
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10 of 27  Thu 28th Jul 2022 3:50pm  
: Joined Mar 2014  Total posts:210

Films about the English Civil War seem to cast the Royalists/Cavaliers as the good guys, and the Parliamentarians/Roundheads as the baddies. As a child it never dawned on me I was being indoctrinated into being a monarchist (luckily I must have been immune!). I've never seen Richard Harris in "Cromwell", so I've no idea which side is portrayed as the goodies. As an aside, when this film was released I was studying A Level History, and the ECW was part of the syllabus. Our teacher told us not to watch it as it contained so many inaccuracies that if we used them in our exam we'd have failed.
Non-Coventry - Current issues - Non-Coventry
Midland Red
Cherwell
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Thread starter
11 of 27  Thu 28th Jul 2022 5:29pm  
Moderator, : Joined Jan 2010  Total posts:5086

Anyone else think the world has gone stark raving bonkers?
Non-Coventry - Current issues - Non-Coventry
Helen F
Warrington
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12 of 27  Thu 28th Jul 2022 5:34pm  
Moderator, : Joined Mar 2013  Total posts:3264

I don't disagree with your thoughts Mick, which is why I'm conflicted. At the base of most 'isms' is basic human nature to create groups of a size we can handle and both exclude others and strengthen the group by creating 'enemies'. It happens from the school yard to international relations. Them and us. Where no reasons exist to exclude others we invent them. Any flaw or quirk becomes an excuse to exclude. The wrong accent, the wrong sex, the wrong denomination. Even things as trivial as hair colour or regular pub. As a nation we've got quite good at supressing this nature but it's still very much alive. We can't really help it. So games like cowboys and Indians and even football feed this instinct. When does it go from healthy competition to picking on people? Personally I feel that it balances on equal sides. Are the American Indians our equal in success? I feel not, whereas I would feel no qualm about Brits vs Germans or Cavaliers vs Roundheads. At the same time those comparisons are in themselves racist. Who am I to look down on Native Americans? To change the subject matter on the kids game wouldn't hurt us but leaving it as it is, is just rude. Forget racism and just think fairness. Why is lioness ok? Because lionesses are tough team players.
Non-Coventry - Current issues - Non-Coventry
Helen F
Warrington
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13 of 27  Thu 28th Jul 2022 5:40pm  
Moderator, : Joined Mar 2013  Total posts:3264

MR, the world was always mad, we're just trying new variations.
Non-Coventry - Current issues - Non-Coventry
Mick Strong
Coventry
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14 of 27  Thu 28th Jul 2022 10:09pm  
: Joined Oct 2020  Total posts:605

On 28th Jul 2022 5:29pm, Midland Red said: Anyone else think the world has gone stark raving bonkers?
I do
Mick Strong

Non-Coventry - Current issues - Non-Coventry
Mick Strong
Coventry
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15 of 27  Fri 29th Jul 2022 12:13pm  
: Joined Oct 2020  Total posts:605

Perhaps not as bonkers as I thought. When a child murderer appeals his 21 years manslaughter sentence and gets give another 3 years. Unfortunately, still not enough.
Mick Strong

Non-Coventry - Current issues - Non-Coventry

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