Cheylesmore Manor

Hi Helen, all, What I labelled "C" appears to correspond with this passage in the Victoria County History: "Adjoining the north wing is a three-storied block of weavers' dwellings. Although apparently brick-built and dating from c. 1800, this block has traces of both masonry and timbering in its walls." I also read that in 1992 there was an excavation on the site - presumably pre-dating its large scale intrusion by the modern Manor House Drive (road) and new apartments on the far side - that revealed steps said to lead to an upstairs hall on the south side (or east side depending on your terminology), in any case, the opposite range to that including the gatehouse. Access to the relevant report and any plans/diagrams therein might prove interesting... The following are given (on https://www.heritagegateway.org.uk/Gateway/Results_Single.aspx?uid=MCT2194&resourceID=1029) as relevant reports, although I have not seen them: MONOGRAPH: Coventry Museums Archaeology Unit. 1992. Cheylesmore Manor Excavations 1992. Rylatt, M., Soden, I. and Dickinson, J.. A4 duplex. 58. MONOGRAPH: Soden I. 1993. Cheylesmore Manor in CADAS Newsletter 295 January 1993. EVALUATION REPORT: Coventry Museum Archaeology Unit. 2000. Manor House Drive 2000: Evaluation of the Cheylesmore Manor. Lewis, B. and Rylatt, M.. A4 simplex. 18.

Yep, that all sounds right. For the 1992 excavation this Soden book gives a partial description of the findings. They discovered the old hall, the south range of the manor. When they built the city wall, they included the manor into its circuit. I'm guessing that the manor was already fortified with a wall and they just incorporated it, rather than started afresh. The castle they're building at Guédelon shows how they might have done that and how if they had destroyed the wall, they'd have taken out part of the old hall at the same time. Various depictions of the manor assume that there was an external gatehouse into the park from the manor. Possibly because in later years there was a track leading out that way, but it's as likely people exited out the front of the manor (B) and headed east to a small tower that looks like it had a postern gate. That would have been enough for a hunting party. A bit further on was the Cheylesmore gate itself. There would have been no burning need for another exit into the park from the manor directly. An example of what looks like a brick building but probably started out as timber can be seen here at Post 19 in the How Old is That Building? topic

So would this image (from https://www.historiccoventry.co.uk/covmaps/map_scans.php?no=4) still represent our best shot at reconstructing the original manor form, in your view? Sorry, I do not have access to relevant information in the various Soden publications at this time, although one day, who knows? Thanks - Tony

I thought that for quite a while but no, I don't think that was what the excavation found. The great hall - the earliest one, was part of the city wall, or at least close to it. It was near to the southern end of the posh, modern replacement for it on the east range. That had been brick clad and divided into cottages (probably early 1700s) and looked like nothing much by the time anyone captured it visually. One of the best maps to try and decipher old Coventry is the 1850 Board of Health Map here. I have tried to fit the excavation plan to that map and it suggests that the city wall might have been slightly further north and at a different angle than the BoH map draws it. It was gone by 1850, so it was just an educated guess. There are other places on the circuit where I know for sure that the map makers got it slightly wrong. The theory that the old hall was part of the town wall comes up in various places and ties in with how fortified manor houses and castles tended to be laid out. The Great Hall was a key living space. The kitchens were often at ground level and the feasting/sleeping areas were on the first floor. That allowed the big windows (often with incorporated seats) to safely look out at the view. They were tall, chunky, fortified buildings. They were (sometimes/always?) incorporated into the curtain wall or inner keep, to look out at the land/gardens). Logically the Cheylesmore manor would have followed that pattern. When the town wall was built, I don't see why they wouldn't have just spliced the manor house curtain wall into the town wall, or did they build round it afresh? If they built round it, it would explain why the hall wasn't quite where the wall was believed to be. As far as I know, the excavations didn't answer this question. It's often very hard to match up the dig plans with the oldest maps. The BoH map shows the possible stable/staff block as a clump of buildings in the south west corner, not a long line of them. That no doubt changed over the years, but as the manor wouldn't have needed massive numbers of full time people/horses, it didn't need as many ancillary buildings as the map you posted suggests. The 'stable block' was brick clad by the time it was sketched (1860ish) but the gables of the roof were still part timber.

That 1850 Board of Health Map is quite interesting but only shows the eastern half of the manor site - the rest is beyond the left border, it seems. This 1888 OS Map shows the full site but there is nothing left on the west side, so far as I can see... Just fishing for any other useful clues!! Cheers - Tony

Yeah, I struggle to use the Coventry Atlas. It's possible if you play about with the settings to get all the BoH maps up. Click on 'use this overlay'. Alternatively Coventry Digital has them all too. But to be going on, here is the other side of the manor map. It's not even obvious where the west wall went. Those cottages could be on the outside edge of the manor wall. When I started, I got photocopies of the maps, scanned them and then spliced them together. Part of the complexity is when changes happened. I need to build a timeline. When the first manor was built, Greyfriars of some sort was already there. The land was given to them from the lord's land. The friars arrived in 1234? and built the church etc out of wood. At some later point it was rebuilt out of stone. The manor was built from 1237? onward. And the city wall wasn't started until 1356? Was the boundary of the manor changed after the city wall was built? Or much more recently? Did it nibble part of the friary land after the Dissolution? Did all the defensive features inside the city wall go then? The excavations at the manor weren't extensive enough to answer these questions.

Hi Helen, all, There is a clearer (zoomable) copy of the Buck (Samuel and Nathaniel) "The South Prospect of the City of Coventry, in Warwickshire" accessible (for now) at https://www.caburdenraremaps.com/map/the-south-prospect-of-t....... I was wondering if any parts of Cheylesmore manor are visible on this now??

Hi Tony In theory yes but I'm not sure how much artistic license the view uses. I know where the manor is on the prospect but none of it looks very like the buildings I know were there.

That was a surprise, I have a framed copy of this. I doubt it is an original print though, no number 18 in the corner !